March 31, 2008...1:22 pm
Controversial idea revolving around the year 2012 and the fourth dimension
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My older brother recently came home and sat my family down. He told us that the human race would evolve into the fourth dimension in the year 2012. Yes, the Mayan calender ends in 2012 and many believe that an asteroid or something will hit Earth. These things are all possible. But, where does this come from. To use his words I would say, ” well basically this man was visited by a spirit who told him all of it.” okay, great. Then where do I go? Obvious answer, the Internet, and I research.
- Wikipedia says something about 2012 being a great year of spiritual transformation, apocalyptic.
- December 21 is the supposed date of the transfer of energy throughout Earth.
- A books titled, 2012: The return off Quetzalcoatl by Daniel Pinchbeck says that we will experience a global awakening to physic connections.
- Terence McKenna’s numerological novelty theory suggests a point of singularity in which humankind will go through a great shift in consciousness
Now I am researching Magick and sigils and Aleister Crowley.
I would love to start a discussion about this because I don’t know much.
16 Comments
March 31, 2008 at 2:25 pm
All those you have mentioned and many more such as Nostradomus, and other secular prophets. In the bible, for those who wish to do the math, can be found many reference to the return of Christ which will give you a time period but not a conclusive date such as Jeremiah, (23:3-6) Ezekiel (3:1-3:3) etc.. They have all predicted events that will come about or lead to the end times. The time needed to investigate these mysteries is not worth the conclusions you will reach, however if you are looking for a way to reply to your brother, tell him that Jesus said the day and hour of the end was not to be known even by Him, but only the Father.
Many Biblical scholars believe we are now living in the end times, as do many Christian Churches. I would simply tell your brother not to bother about the date, but make sure his lamp is full less Christ comes as a thief in the night.
Netprophet
March 31, 2008 at 2:32 pm
okay, actually I was looking for a more open-minded answer that was not just Christianity based. Thanks for the time though.
March 31, 2008 at 3:20 pm
Go on I will bite, and in as open minded manner as possible, what specifically are you looking for or hoping to discuss?
The Mayan calendar did end in 2012 and this has been taken to mean something significant by many members of different cults and religions, some more credible than others. Personally I suspect that one of two things happened, the calendar stopped at 2012 because either:
a) the Mayans were dying out from what ever it was that eventually destroyed their civilisation and calculating long distant dates stopped because in the face of total strife it didn’t seem very important.
b) The Scholar/Scribe got bored and/or died.
What I am fascinated with though is how you got from the Mayan calendar to Old Uncle Al?
April 1, 2008 at 3:54 am
I’m sorry that you viewed my answer to your commentary as close-minded just because I only discussed the issue from the Christian point of view. I have studied many of the other commentaries on the topic of the year 2012. Some suggest a reference to the end times, others to some Cosmic disaster and then there is the man that had a visitation from a spirit that told him that is the year that mankind will move into the fourth dimension. That one I haven’t given much thought. Can you tell me a little more about that guy?
What I was trying to express in my first reply to this thread was that the Christian view is the only one that I am able to accept at this time. Not because I am a Christian, but because the other points of view have no substance to back them up.
You asked for a discussion on the subject so you should be ready to accept all points of view, even that of the Christians. You say that you don’t believe in organized religion but I have never heard your reasons why. I too, don’t care for organized religion. If you think that for me to call myself a Christian automatically makes me part of an organized religion, I can certainly understand why you would think that way. Considering that most Christians feel that way and are very proud of it. In fact most are ready to tell you exactly why their particular church is the only true church following Christ’s teachings. No wonder you’re confused. Or maybe I’m the one who is confused because I see the Christian Churches as organizations but true Christianity began as a movement to spread the message of salvation proclaimed by Jesus Christ. Man of course turned that into a religion, which I believe was never the intent of Jesus. He already had a religion. Most, or maybe all Christians, would disagree with me on this, but I’m content for now to simply develop my relationship with God through the teachings of Jesus, not the Church’s that man has created in His name. Does that make sense? I just wanted you to know where I’m coming from.
Going back to your discussion on 2012, I’m still confused as to what it is you are trying to get a better understanding of. 2012 is just a year that is associated by many different groups of individuals with some kind of terrifying event that could or could not, lead to the end of Civilization as we know it. What else is there to know?
April 1, 2008 at 11:52 pm
I stand corrected netprophet. I was simply under the impression that you only wanted me to care about the Christian answer to my question, and now I at least know that you are educated in the others. I do know know much about the man who was visited by the spirit. I am not even sure of his name. I do believe that this ‘God’ (not in a Christian, biblical sense) is really ourselves. People have energy from the souls inside of them and that energy is powerful when you can tap into it. People that have religious experiences are really experiencing the power that they have within themselves. Everyone is capable of knowing the past and the future.
As for nicnevyn……. I am not sure how I connected the two. I am not as organized I wish to be, but I am sure it had to do with the fourth dimension. My brother told me the name of the guy that was visited by the spirit and a book, but for the first time in my life I didn’t write something down. I wanted to open this discussion to see if anyone could help me know more about it. Why do you call him Uncle Al? I suppose you are very familiar with his works. I am not. I just started looking into him.
April 2, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Hi Shyanne,
Well, you’ve opened up a pretty big can of worms! I’m in the middle of reading Daniel Pinchbecks “2012: Return of Quetzalcoatl” to get a handle on the ‘awakening’ aspect of the subject.
I have read many opinons on the proposed events of 2012, the jury is still out on whether it’s going to be December 21 or 23…(I’m leaning toward the 23rd), but to try and decifer what the Mayans where indicating on their circular calendar cannot be interpreted from a Christian perspective.
The Mayans believe that life in the universe is cyclical, meaning that what goes around comes around again. The Mayans have marked the date of the end of their calendar not simply as the end (as in the Christian ‘End Times’
but the beginning of something new. Considering the accuracy of their calendar on other celestial events I would have to assume that this date is significant. So what’s going to happen?
From a practical stand point astronomers can tell us that there will be an alignment of the Earth with the Sun, Jupiter and the center of out Milkyway Galaxy. In the same way that the moon is able to manifest a physical change on the Earth (the tides) this coming alignment could pull hard enough on the Earth to make the oceans rise and pull hard enough to shift the Earth’s crust creating massive earthquakes.
On the spiritual side there are those who say that some un-seen force or beam will eminate from the center of the Milkyway and actually activate something in our DNA (open our third eye) that will enable us to see, act and interact in an as yet un-seen dimension. That of course depends on if we can survive the floods and earthquakes.
Honestly there are so many hypothesis about the event that I have to say we’ll just have to wait and see.
David
April 3, 2008 at 5:47 am
+++Why do you call him Uncle Al? I suppose you are very familiar with his works. I am not. I just started looking into him.+++
I wouldn’t say very familiar, I know many that are better read than I on the works of Crowley, although his work, whether people are happy about it or not has influenced any number of pagan and new age traditions, which is where my interest in him comes in.
That being said, the epithet of “Uncle” is one given I suppose as a term of endearment as everybody has one very slightly eccentric uncle (or aunt) that comes to the family gathering and sits in the corner spouting about stuff, and manges somehow to draw a crowd of listeners, hahaha even if the fascination is a little bit on the morbid side.
In all honesty I swing from one day to the next trying to debate if the man was a total genius or a total nut job; most days I suspect both. I am really trying to wrack my brains about anything I have read that connects him to a supposed 4th dimension or the year 2012 and I am failing badly, the nearest thing I can think of is his supposed interaction with an entity called LAM, who looked decidely like a Roswell Grey (or and Asguard from Stargate). Many have jumped on this part of his work to explain any number of random and bizarre theories.
April 3, 2008 at 1:10 pm
David Tyler:Do you like the book? I saw it on amazon a few days ago and was going to buy it, but I wasn’t sure. I do understand that we will have to wait in see and I know I won’t get a infinitive answer, but I do like to have a general idea of whether this stuff is actually possible. So many theories predict that 2012 is the ‘end’ or beginning of something that we have never seen and I can’t decide whether it’s best kept between a select few, or people should know. If the wrong people find out, then we could have chaos around the world. This just all seems very sci-fi fiction to me. I need to read about it and make sure that I can even believe it. Astronomers really have said that the extreme earthquakes are possible?
Also, are poles are shifting right now are they not?
nicnevyn: Thank you for your responses. I need to study more into him as well. I have got his tarot deck and the book of throth on my wish list on amazon, so I will be getting that soon enough. I have come to the conclusion multiple times in my life that it is so hard to be firmly stuck to one idea, because you learn something new that changed your opinion slightly every day.
April 4, 2008 at 10:35 am
The book is very good actually! Daniel’s writing style is beautiful…he packs quite a lot of information into a simple sentence so I find myself reading and re-reading lines to help the information sink in. I highly recommend it to you considering your journalism aspirations.
Astronomers haven’t predicted earthquakes in 2012, that will be left to geologists to decide, but, in theory it could happen.
Yes, we are in the middle of a polar shift. PBS did a great documentary a few years back called “Magnetic Sotrm”, you can watch it here:
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-3291567805500476911&q=magnetic+storm&total=65&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
Do you remember the scene in Armadedon (http://imdb.com/title/tt0120591/) where the scientists are debating whether they should announce the arrival of a planet killing asteroid? They decide to release the information…mayhem ensues…
If you knew for sure…would you announce it? Or keep it secret while preparing an escape for your friends and family?
I have a bad feeling that our world leaders may have chosen the later…
April 5, 2008 at 2:18 am
I definitely agree with you that our world leaders would keep it secret. I am just having such a up and down time with all of the new information I’m finding.
*opening another can of worms*
I didn’t know that so many people have actually seen UFO’s. Even Armstrong’s group recorded seeing a light in a crater on the moon. How can people learn about these things and just live their everyday lives. I mean, I know how they can, it just seems a little difficult to me to know I have seen a UFO and no one will ever believe that. Not that I have, because I have not.
Sorry, back on track. I’m just really interested in this whole 2012 thing because if it’s true then how can we possible not just go crazy. Really, if you think about, everything would stop. All we would need is food I guess. But, for the most part, I think everyone would just quit their jobs and quit school and live their lives. Everything should be free and we should all go swim in an ocean that we’ve never touched. HAHA, I am such an idealist.
April 5, 2008 at 8:24 am
It’s a *very big* can of worms indeed! :0)
Despite the potential for extreme disaster I choose to focus on the spiritual aspect of whatever the change is going to be, which is why I’ve been attracted to the Daniel Pinchbeck book.
From the other books I have read/am reading and through information I’ve been gathering from multiple sources I’m leaning toward some sort of evolution, a spiritual ascension. The Greek word ‘apokalupsis’ (or in English Apocalypse) really means to ‘uncover’…or ‘reveal’. I look forward positively to what will be revealed to us whether it be in 2012, or not.
I think that if you see what may (or may not) happen in 2012 as *fearful* it will be fearful. But if you see it as something *wonderful* it WILL be wonderful! The true power of the mind and indeed the spirit, is beyond our comprehension…at this point in time…but maybe THAT’s what will be revealed…
A final thought: think of the butterfly who when it started it’s life was a caterpillar who then cacooned itself before revealing it’s true identity as a butterfly. I think we as a species, right now, are in that cacoon waiting to reveal ourselves to the Universe…
April 8, 2008 at 8:38 pm
wow! It’s so strange that you say that because I brought it up to my brother that Leonard Cohen translated apocalyptic into, ” that which is revealed when the woman’s veil is lifted.” And I suppose that relates to a story in the Bible about veils and when they are lifted the end of the world is near.
I love it. I love the conversation this has led to and I am so amazed that this kind of thinking is occurring more and more every day. Thanks for the time!
April 9, 2008 at 11:02 am
I agree.
And get this, I just discovered that Bhuddists are waiting for an estimated 300 or 400 years for Shambalah to be ‘revealed’. There are 96 Billion people living in 96 city/provinces in Shambalah which is said to exist around the North Pole region but in an as unyet discovered dimension…
Interesting, huh?
April 10, 2008 at 2:00 pm
I am going to have to look that one up.
I have to admit I didn’t think that was very plausible at first, then I googled it and read people talking about how they saw guards of the city. Then I ran across an article on Atlantis. I could get stuck on this kind of stuff forever! I’m sucked in.
April 14, 2008 at 11:01 am
We’re on the same journey Shyanne… :0)
Stay in touch.
April 14, 2008 at 3:31 pm
I definitely will stay in touch. I have enough info from our communications to write four separate blog entries.
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